Windows Server - Why does exiting "server management" exit my Terminal Server session?

Asked By ToddAndMargo

05-Mar-10 07:11 PM

Hi All,

I have never seen this weird behavior before.  I have a customer
with a SBS2003 Terminal Server.  In start up, it has an icon for
Management).  Okay, no problem.  I have seen this before.

But, on this particular server, when you exit "server management",
you also exit your Terminal Services' session (same as Logout).
What a pain in the neck!

So, I erased "server management" from Start Up and now no log
out problems with any other program.

But, when I "actually" need to run "server management", it
exit me again when I exit it.  And, after a few bad words, I
log back in, I get another icon for "server management"
in my Start Up.  And the whole cycle starts over, including
the bad words.

Does anyone know how to end this behavior and restore my
sanity?

Many thanks,
-T

06-Mar-10 03:35 AM

Please clarify what you mean by "a SBS 2003 Terminal Server" as TS is not
available to run directly on a SBS 2003 box. Is this actually a separate
server which would be an ok scenario?

06-Mar-10 05:31 PM

I am not sure what you mean.  Terminal Services runs on SBS 2003.
System Properties, General tab gives: System: Microsoft Window Server
2003 for Small Business Server Service Pack 2.  And I read this
from a Terminal Services window.

What am I missing?

-T

06-Mar-10 07:08 PM

SBS 2003 can only run Terminal Services in Remote Administration mode (that
is, only let a domain admin log in via a TS session to administer the
server).  Unless it is hacked, SBS 2003 does not run in Terminal Services
Application mode.  I think Steve's question is:  has the SBS server been
hacked to allow it to act as a Terminal Server for general use by the domain
users?

The Server Management console is what you would expect to see when you log
into a default install of SBS 2003.

--
Merv  Porter   [SBS-MVP]
============================

06-Mar-10 07:20 PM

More info...

When you log onto a default install of SBS 2003, LaunchConsole.exe is
invoked which brings up Server Management.

Terminal Services Manager can be manually invoked by starting   tsadmin.exe
located in C:\WINDOWS\system32\.

--
Merv  Porter   [SBS-MVP]
============================

06-Mar-10 07:42 PM

Hi Merv,

The allows for only two open session at once.  Since there is
only one user on the network (he has both a laptop for the road
and a desktop), the TS work fine.  I presume the TS has not been
hacked.

I do not care if the "Server Management console" starts when
I start the TS.  What I do care about is that the "Server
Management console" logs me off my TS session when it exits.
Very, very annoying!

-T

06-Mar-10 07:45 PM

Hmmm.  If I erase "Server Manager" from my "Start up", "Server
Manager" is not invoked on logon.  Better be careful though,
if you start Server Maanger manually, it will copy an icon
back into start up and the who mess repeats itself.

How do I get the "Server Management console" to stop exiting me
from my TS session when it exits?


I have an icon on the desktop for tsadmn.

Thank you for responding.

-T
p.s. I did not sell him the SBS server.  I really
do not think he even needs one, but ...

06-Mar-10 07:47 PM

This is why I'd rather pay the few extra $$$ and get the
real thing.  And, it is not that much more expensive.

06-Mar-10 07:53 PM

Question:  If the user has a laptop for the road and a desktop, why is he
not using Remote Web Workplace to remotely control his desktop from the
laptop when he is on the road (rather than remotely controlling the SBS
server itself)?  He would then not need to be a domain admin (which he must
be now in order to access the SBS server during a TS session).

As for Server Management shutting down your TS session... not sure what is
going on here unless there is a group policy or login script for TS sessions
that only allows the Server Management app to run in a TS session.  While in
a TS session, do you have full access to the server's desktop and all other
features or are you limited to the Server Management interface only?

--
Merv  Porter   [SBS-MVP]
============================

06-Mar-10 07:55 PM

Remote Web Workplace (remotely control his desktop from his laptop).

--
Merv  Porter   [SBS-MVP]
============================

06-Mar-10 09:40 PM

Hi Merv,

1) TS is faster.
2) He does not like leaving his desktop on all the time, where
he has to leave his server running.
3) He does not need to be a domain admin to use his TS.  I know this
because he had me elevate him to domain admin so he could see
some files he wanted to see in a restriced area (he wants to
keep them restricted in case he gets an on site employee).


He can run anything in a TS session, both before and after I elevated
him to domain admin.  If the idiot Server Manager is running, you
can just minimize it while you are doing your other work.  He even runs
Quick Books.   Can't run Outlook though, due to the weird way Exchange
runs on a Windows server (he uses Outlook anywhere on his laptop).

I would love it if it were a group policy, so I could turn it off.

Thank you for responding,
-T

-T

06-Mar-10 09:42 PM

Dump the server.  Open VPN and Ultra VNC.  (Although
Ultra VNC does not due pass through printing.)

-T

06-Mar-10 10:38 PM

OK that clarifies what you meant by SBS TS and Merv has given you some
additional comments. I'd only add that in essence since the user is logging
into the admin TS sessions available they are actually using the server as a
workstation which is not really a good idea.

06-Mar-10 11:05 PM

TS as a standard user or a domain admin.

When did "one" user take down a Windows server?  With
The server is sitting there doing nothing 99.9% of the time!

DO you know how to disable the Server Manager's log out
problem?

Many thanks,
T

07-Mar-10 02:46 PM

The point is that there is no TS application mode on SBS. The SBS
accepts remote connections and is licenced to do so only for
administrative purposes, though of course there is no real way to
enforce this. You're right, this is not the correct product for this
application.


You're right again, no other employee is going to be inconvenienced if
he kills it. And one user can kill *any* computer. Or cause it to start
doing illegal things, and it is got to be easier to do that with a
computer that already has mail and web servers built in than with a
workstation OS.

Not unless you can tell us why it is happening. it is not a matter of
'disabling' it, it is a matter of finding out what is causing it. This is
*not* normal behaviour for an administrator logon, so does it also
happen with a domain admin account? If so, someone has deliberately
configured it that way, you will need to fish through policies. There is
definitely something non-standard here, as by default only
administrators can logon to an SBS, either at the console or remotely.

--
Joe

08-Mar-10 12:43 AM

Dude!  If I knew why, I could fix it myself and I would
not have to ask for help!

Thank you for trying anyway.

-T

p.s. there is a lot of weird things on this system.
That it exists at all for ONE USER is still a mystery
to me.

08-Mar-10 12:56 AM

With all these weird things does the SBS BPA flag any possible problems?

08-Mar-10 02:33 PM

What is a BPA flag?

08-Mar-10 02:54 PM

it is always a good idea to run the SBS BPA (Best Practice Analyzer) to see
what potential problems it "flags" or suggests for you to look at.

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=940439

08-Mar-10 04:16 PM

to see

Thank you for the link.

And if the user does not want to run his system
according to the BPA, do you know of a way to
correct the exit problem with Server Manager?

I am beginning to think the problem is just harassment
the part of someone who just wants to be a purist
as to how someone uses his server.

-T

08-Mar-10 04:22 PM

and note that the difference between 'Terminal Services Admin mode' and
'Terminal Services Application Mode' is NOT a visible thing, there is no
visible difference in functionality. There is a HUGE difference in how the
OS handles things. The switch to application mode changes
foreground/background priorities and implements temporary user copies of
various registry/windows related items (which is why you need to put a TS
into 'install mode' whereas TS Admin Mode does not require this).

'When was the last time a single user took down a Windows Server', when that
user was using the server as a workstation. Happens all the time, and that is
why it is not recommended.

People use such setups for years, beat their head around the problems it
causes. If they look at the true cost of such over time it far exceeds doing
it properly.

08-Mar-10 04:31 PM

Respectfully, what you are describing is not normal. So, either somethings
broken/misconfigured or inaccuracy of the description. Server manager
laucnhes (anyoyingly by default) at full screen and at times, I have clicked
on the close (TS) window instead of the close Server manager window.

But to be fair, more detailed information is going to be needed to do much
with this issue.

Just for starters, is the user logged out of the console when running server
manager from their or is limited to only TS sessions?


--
/kj

08-Mar-10 04:38 PM

No purist here, but I would never let a user even on their own server simply
ignore problems that the SBS BPA had found. If  you do not check for problems
how will you know if your original question about server manager does not
have a reason that the BPA leads you to?

08-Mar-10 05:29 PM

The server is way, way down the hall in a special physically
secured server room.  So, we typically use TS to manage the
thing.

The console is sitting at the log on prompt.  We never leave
it logged in.  The times I have used it, Server Manager did
not log me off.  And, I always kill Server Manager the minute
it pops up as I seldom have need for it.  (it is just me personally,
I do not like auto started programs.  I like to start things
manually.)

The problem with Server Manager logging me off TS after it
exits is confined to TS.  Also, Server Manager reinstall
a Server Manager icon in Startup, if I have previously
erased it.

-T

08-Mar-10 05:40 PM

I'd ask you to try the same on the physcial console once to verify current
issue. fwiw, I do not like auto startup programs either but the product is
design that way. It is not designed to log you off when you close it.


Does it actully log you off or does the TS session just end. If actully
logging off you should see so just before the TS windows closes. if the TS
window just closes, the TS session may be ending for some other reason not
due to a logg off. I know the outcome is the same but getting to the bottom
of what is causing it is different.



--
/kj

08-Mar-10 05:46 PM

simply
problems


I did not mean to imply BPA was a bad thing, it is just
that sometimes users will want/need to go outside what
the thought police in marketing think their products
should be used for.

And, "we" admin types tend to be protective of servers.
Since there is only one user (I do not count), think
of it as a glorified workstation.

Running BPA is way more expansive and trouble than
the scope of what I am asking.  Is there a switch,
registry setting, policy I can flip that will
stop Server Manager from logging me off TS when
I exit Server Manager?

I am not looking to repair other parts of a system
that the customer is otherwise happy with.

-T

08-Mar-10 05:57 PM

I think the console is coming up because the user has been put into 'Small
Business Server Remote Operators' (or similar) group and he should be
getting the 'manager' console rather than the full admin console.

This would also explain why he is able to log on but needed to be granted
admin privs for something else to work.

The real upshot is: DON'T DO IT.

08-Mar-10 06:05 PM

how the


It works perfectly well for him in whatever mode it is in.  As
long as it does what he wants, he does not care.


when that
that is
exceeds doing


And, when was the last time a single user took down his
workstation?  Maybe if we did not let him use that either,
then we'd save ourselves a lot of time and trouble maintaining
them.  Oh the head banging we'd save ourselves!

The user payed good money for the thing and has a good
record on not harming anything.  He should be able to
use the thing any way he sees fit.  It is his property,
his decision, and his responsibility.  His server is in
no danger from his use of it.  He is in 1000 times more
danger by continuing to use Internet Explorer on
his workstation.  (I am working on him.)

So, instead of telling me you do not like the way
he is using his server, would you please take a shot at
answering my original question?  Which is, how do I tell
Server Manager to stop exiting my Terminal
Services session when Server Manager exits?

Many thanks,
-T

08-Mar-10 06:12 PM

That product is not supposed to log you off as everyone else has
suggested multiple times.

You are experiencing an anomaly of unknown origin, hence no quick fix
exists.
--
Leonid S. Knyshov
Crashproof Solutions
510-282-1008
Twitter: @wiseleo
http://crashproofsolutions.com
Microsoft Small Business Specialist
Please vote "helpful" if I helped you :)

08-Mar-10 06:14 PM

It will be at least a month before I can try that again.
Best just to trust my memory.


You see TS log you out.  Same light show as if you actually
asked to log out.  When you log back in, you have to restart
everything you were running.

Server Manager is the only program that does this.

Just thinking outside the box here.  What if:

1) I rename the actual server manager program

2) made up new icons for the new name, so
I could run it whenever I wanted.

That way, when I did run it, and it created
a new icon in Startup, the icon would point
to the wrong name and never startup.

then, I would just have to make sure that when I
did run the new name, that I minimized, instead
of exit.

Just an idea.

-T

08-Mar-10 06:17 PM

It is going to be a few months before I can do that.  Best
rely on my memory.


Same light show as if you actually asked to log off. And,
when you do log back in, you have to restart everything.

Maybe I should just rename the Server Manager program and
create new icons.  I would still get exited from TS, but
the new icon Server Manager creates in Startup would not
auto start.

-T

08-Mar-10 06:23 PM

Who cares.  It works.


It was some private files marked for only the admin
to look at.


Maybe he should ask the thought police at Microsoft
Marketing for a refund? (Ya right, just as
soon as they reimburse users for all the lost time
and cost of their crappy updates.)   :-)

08-Mar-10 06:38 PM

Any idea where to start looking?  I did not find a "preferences"
section that pertains to this in Server Manager.

08-Mar-10 06:43 PM

NO, maybe as his 'trusted advisor' you can take some responsibility as well
as earning some cash and educate the user as to why this is not a good idea.

08-Mar-10 06:42 PM

Perhaps the OP is using TSWeb? That will log you off, I believe.

--
-----------------------------------------------
Les Connor [SBS MVP]

08-Mar-10 06:49 PM

Must be a *really* long hallway!!!. Best guess is what SG suggested. Can't
really make any more good guesses without substantiaiton. - Good luck.


--
/kj

08-Mar-10 06:53 PM

what groups is the UserID a member of?

08-Mar-10 07:06 PM

The OP "domain admin" account is a member of the Domain Power Users group
but not a member of the Domain Admins group.  When he starts a TS session,
Mysbsconsole.msc is launched and not ITproconsole.msc.  Server Management
Management, his TS session will also exit.

Server management not working
http://www.eggheadcafe.com/forumarchives/windowsserversbs/Oct2005/post24320280.asp
------------------------------------------------
The console that is launched is determined by the following
logic. So please try whether you can open Server Management by following
methods:

- If the user is member of Domain Admins, LaunchConsole.exe launches

%allusersprofile%\Application Data\Microsoft\Small Business

Server\Administration\itproconsole.msc

- If the user is member of Domain Power Users, LaunchConsole.exe launches

%allusersprofile%\Application Data\Microsoft\Small Business

Server\Administration\mysbsconsole.msc

- Otherwise, LaunchConsole.exe exits and no console is loaded.
------------------------------------------------
--
Merv  Porter   [SBS-MVP]
============================

08-Mar-10 07:19 PM

Something else is wrong with this server.

Please troubleshoot it properly. Make a full backup and run BPA. Running
BPA is faster than arguing. Show us a clean bill of health please.

Now, if I were a devious admin who wanted to create such a behavior, I
could conceivably disable the normal console launch process, replace it
with a batch file, and then add "shutdown -l" to that batch file that
launches that console. Alternatively, I could modify the explorer shell
registry entry or come up with some other interesting way to trigger a
log off based on mmc.exe thread exit.

My point is that this is not how the product was designed to operate.
--
Leonid S. Knyshov
Crashproof Solutions
510-282-1008
Twitter: @wiseleo
http://crashproofsolutions.com
Microsoft Small Business Specialist
Please vote "helpful" if I helped you :)

08-Mar-10 07:26 PM

Thank you!  I will try changing what groups he is a member of.
-T

08-Mar-10 07:28 PM

On 03/08/2010 03:42 PM, Les Connor [SBS MVP] wrote:
mstsc