Windows Server - HP X510 data vault vs MediaSmart EX487

Asked By Joe#2

20-Nov-09 01:51 PM

At the SMB nation conference last month there was a lot of excitement about
the X510 data vault.

Today the mediasmart EX487 is very attractively priced. Several hundred less
than the X510.

Both are based on windows home server. Any comments on one vs the other? (I
know the X510 has a faster cpu, but in an office with only 3 or 4 computers
that would not matter).

20-Nov-09 02:09 PM

I am struggling with this too for a client (4 workstations, Peer-to-Peer; not
ready for a server yet).  I pretty much decided today to get them an EX-490.
The included 1TB drive should be enough for now.   It appears from the specs
that the X510 comes with 2 bays full (2 x 500 GB drives).  The EX487 is
about the same price as the EX490, but it comes with 2 x 750 GB drives.

While I like the faster processor in the X510, the extra $150 doesn???t look
like it is worth it if all it will be used for is backups.  I will take that
money and buy the client a 1TB external USB/SATA so that the backups (which
can also back up a server, though not officially supported) can be moved
offsite periodically.

--
Merv  Porter   [SBS-MVP]
============================

20-Nov-09 06:07 PM

Is the ram the same?  If the X510 has more ram, that would be a plus.

I have got 3 '487's I think, in an office with about 30 machines.  They do
their underlying job fine--backups are pretty much routine, and they provide
useful space for media file storage.  However, they seem underpowered which
I need to connect for some admin purpose, often.

I would always want to get multiple drives in a WHS to provide redundancy.

20-Nov-09 08:12 PM

From what I have read, the X510 (and the EX495) comes with memory maxed out at
2 GB (a single slot) and has a Dual Pentium Processor.  The EX490 also has 2
GB but has a Celeron Processor similar to the EX485/487.  I suspect that if
you need streaming video, the X510 (or EX495) may be a better fit.  But for
simple backups for 10 workstations, I don???t believe a faster processor would
be much benefit.

With SBS, all of the user data should be on the server via folder
redirection and/or roaming profiles.  The workstations should be acting more
like glorified thin clients.  WHS hard drive redundancy sounds good, but I am
not sure it provides much real benefit.  Losing the only drive in a single
drive WHS system would be a pain, but with offsite storage of the WHS Backup
Database (even if it were several days old), that pain should be minimal.

Now in a P2P network, a secondary drive with duplication of the WHS Backup
Database (via Alex Kuretz's WHS BDBB add-in) may be desirable since the
workstations store all the data for the network and that data can constantly
change on those workstations.  A redundant hard drive for duplication of the
WHS Backup database coupled with offsite storage of the WHS Backup DB would
seem to be appropriate.

Automated backup (copy) of the WHS Backup Database to an external drive is
the feature I am most interested in but have not seen yet.  In addition, I'd
like to see some kind of backup/restore of the WHS operating system itself.


--
Merv  Porter   [SBS-MVP]
============================

20-Nov-09 08:53 PM

I have since learned of one plus of the X510. Its e-sata port will support
multiple external drives where as the EX487 will only support 1, if I
understand the info from this site http://www.mediasmartserver.net/

Newegg is selling the EX487 for $499 or $525 with an additional 1 TB drive
ending today.

20-Nov-09 09:10 PM

At that price of $499 with free shipping, that HP is so small and energy
efficent I am temped to buy one myself. I know we get a "free" licence thru
ActionPac and/or technet and I guess it will run OK on and old P4 box ???
what is your experience?

20-Nov-09 09:30 PM

There are lots of folks running WHS on old boxes.  I built mine at home
using the smallest cheapest box I could find at the time, but the HP boxes
are far smaller, do more, and are more flexible than my home brew effort.
Mine's got a better processor and more ram, though--which I hope will stand
me in good stead when another version is being tested.

The product specs are bare minimum--an old box will have plenty of CPU--the
question is the size and reliability of the drives.

It is hard to build from scratch with new parts and beat the HP product, and
I think there are others that are cheaper.  I do not know the answer about
the e-sata port--could be correct.

We bought the WHS's when we found we were out of space on our old SBS-2003
server, and expanding the storage in it was not cost effective.  We use the
storage on the WHS for pictures and, increasingly, video--and having cheaply
expandable storage with redundancy for that still seems worthwhile, even
though we have now move to SBS-2008 on a new server--with lots more, but
certainly not inexhaustible storage.

I need to take the office machines apart and change the ram stick to 2
gigs--maybe next time I need to order ram for something else...

20-Nov-09 11:21 PM

Reliable drives - brings up another question. What happens when a drive
fails? do the OS know it , raise alarms, automatically move the data, ets ??

21-Nov-09 07:33 AM

I have had the system drive fail on my home WHS.  Drive failures on a headless
appliance are.....strange.

If it had been a non-system drive, the OS would have identified an issue.
With the System drive, all I could tell from outside was that the server
was not responding.

I put in a new drive, reinstalled the OS, re-created my users, and it went
out and found the redundant data stores on the data drives, and re-created
the stuff, as I recall--it is been awhile.  I put a monitor and DVD drive on
the box to see what was going on and get that done.  I have seen the
instructions about what to do on an HP box with such a failure, but I cannot
remember how it goes--as I recall there is a button to push on the back
somewhere...(but what does that do?--I have no clue--there are no removable
drives.  They come with a full set of media, though--I think it must be able
to grab stuff off a client machine on the network somehow)

In such a failure, you DO lose the backups.  You can, however, backup the
backup database, and I think the backup data itself.  There are some KB
articles on how to do these things, and excellent articles on how some of
the functionality works--redundancy, etc.

21-Nov-09 12:55 PM

Thanks for the info. I am gonna just have to jump in and do a WHS and get some
experience.

A funny thought. Has anyone put one of these in a virtual environment? Can
you even do it?

22-Nov-09 06:08 AM

I installed mine on a Win2003 server running Virtual Server 2005. No
problems and the test bare metal restore of my SBS2003 server worked
fine from the backup.
Simon

22-Nov-09 08:59 AM

Were you using the WHS to back up your server?

22-Nov-09 02:32 PM

Yes

22-Nov-09 03:17 PM

Just remember not to store any important data in any folders called "temp".
WHS does not backup folders with this name.  :-(

--
Merv  Porter   [SBS-MVP]
============================

22-Nov-09 11:13 PM

Thanks to all for the great input!

23-Nov-09 10:57 AM

Good thing to mention.

WHS does allow for a bare metal restore, but it does not actually do a
straight image--there are exclusions, and they are listed by the software
(on the screen during backup setup, as I recall), but who reads all that
stuff!

25-Nov-09 05:45 PM

That "temp" thing is changed in Power Pack 3, which has been released.

Windows Home Server Release Documentation
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=f219dd13-3d9a-4506-8be2-fbcc4e195415&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MicrosoftDownloadCenter+%28Microsoft+Download+Center%29&utm_content=FeedBurner

25-Nov-09 06:15 PM

Good to know Dave.  Haven't installed or played with PP3 yet.

--
Merv  Porter   [SBS-MVP]
============================

27-Nov-09 06:08 PM

Oops--late to the party and posting before reading...

27-Nov-09 06:07 PM

Have you read the release notes for PP3 yet?

---
???	Temp folders no longer automatically excluded from backup
If you create a folder named Temp anywhere in you shared folders, it is now
backed up the same as the other folders in your shared folder structure.
----